Interviews

F5

The Reckoning

A Conversation with thrash legends David Ellefson & Jimmy De'grasso

By Cameron Edney

Every now and then I get to do something a little bit different and this was certainly one of those cases. After four years of conducting interviews, I was about to do conference calls with two of thrash metal's iconic musicians ... David Ellefson and Jimmy De'grasso! If neither of those names rings a bell then you are on the wrong website right now! Both David and jimmy have been in the business for well over twenty five years and have influenced more people than I could ever mention. Recording and playing with bands such as Megadeth, Soulfly, Suicidal Tendencies, Alice Cooper, Alice In Chains, Temple Of Brutality and David Lee Roth has earned them both their rightful places in heavy metal history. Years after working together with thrash royalty Megadeth, Ellefson and De'grasso are back together making metal for the masses with F5. Earlier this year F5 released their second album 'The Reckoning', heavier than the band's debut 'A drug for all seasons' 'The Reckoning was well received by fans of both guys past work and it opened up the eyes to thousands more who were not aware of F5's existence. There is no doubt that with outstanding songs such as 'Rank and File', 'Love is Dead' and 'Control', 'The Reckoning' will be classed as one of the better metal albums to be released in 2008. After speaking with Dave & Jimmy for what seemed like only a few minutes, I got an insight to another side of these thrashers that I had never before witnessed. We discussed so many different topics as you will see and both guys were not backwards in coming forwards by any means. We discussed the latest kick ass F5 album 'the reckoning', their love for Australia, touring with so many influential artists, parenthood and much more. The time has come to discuss The Reckoning with David Ellefson and Jimmy De'grasso.... Enjoy!

INSIDE OUT: Hi guys, how are you both doing?

DAVID ELLEFSON (DE): Hey Cameron, what's been going on down under lately?

JIMMY DE'GRASSO (JD): Hello, Cameron I'm well, how's life treating you down under?

INSIDE OUT: All is good mate, busy as usual. Dave, we have been getting some amazing tours over the last few months.

DE: Yeah, I've been getting all of your emails man, I've been seeing that! There were a ton of things coming through!

INSIDE OUT: Guys, I want to thank you both for taking the time out to talk with me today, it is a true pleasure to have not one but two of my favorite musicians on the phone at the same time. Let's talk about the latest F5 album 'The Reckoning' what an amazing rockin album, the band has certainly grown since 'A drug for all Seasons' was released. No doubt you were happy with the outcome?

DE: I think so, just knowing from where we came from when the band started, to the process we went through with 'A Drug For All Seasons' and the touring for that album which took us to the next phase of the bands growth! In my opinion 'The Reckoning' is a progression that a rising band should take, it shows that the growth between the two albums is huge and with Jimmy on drums now, it helps us take it up to where we wanted to go musically.

JD: The first record which I didn't have anything to do with, I liked. I really thought it was a good commercial rock album. I don't know if you would have called it a metal record, but I thought it was a great groove rock record. This one is obviously a lot different; it's more of a metal record.

INSIDE OUT: David, 'The Reckoning' was once again produced by Ryan Greene, when it came to look for a producer; did you consider working with anyone else?

DE: We did, we thought about using a couple of other people and we talked with a few other people and there were several things we had to consider. Ryan already knew the inner workings of the band, we felt comfortable working with him. The fact that he was in our home town of phoenix helped a lot. You always run the risk when you use a new producer. We wanted to make this record with us being much more in charge of what we felt the right direction was. The whole process of working with a new producer was something that we didn't want to take up that much time and energy doing, especially when we knew that the working relationship with Ryan was very productive and solid after working together on the last record.

INSIDE OUT: How did you push each other musically and creatively to get the best results possible for the new album?

JD: The funny thing is Dave and I have known each other for about eighteen years now and we've had a repour personally and musically. As you know, we both played together in Megadeth a long time ago and we have a knack for playing together. Since then we have played together in Montrose as well and there are certain things we both know the other is going to do, and we don't have to discuss music too much. Dave is always open to trying new things and more aggressive things on the drums and our producer Ryan was the same. Ryan is also a drummer and he would come up with an idea here and there, he would say "now i don't know if this is psychically possible, but play the double bass, then play this tom tom and hit those two cymbals there" [laughs]. I could usually make it happen, so we would come up with more weird stuff and i would try to feel my way through it. We don't take it too seriously anymore, we just try to make the best album we can while having fun!

DE: I think Steve and John really stepped up big time. Steve especially pushed us all to get back to some essentials that were happening when we were originally writing the very first batch of songs back in 2003. One of the things that Steve wanted was a lot more lead guitar playing on the record. When we were going through the transition from our former drummer, everybody in the band looked at me and said call Jimmy De'grasso immediately [laughs]. I love Jimmy, he's one of my best friends, he and I make a great rhythm section together and i think he'd fits in great with F5. There were a bunch of songs that we wrote while we were on tour for 'A Drug For All Seasons', some that we wrote when we came off the road from that tour. Steve and John wrote the music for 'Love Is Dead', Final Hour, and 'Through Hell' a week before Jimmy came in! They were written really without a drummer. Steve and John wrote them with no limitations, just wanted to be as crazy as they could musically knowing that Jimmy could come in and just play it! Getting Jimmy into the picture pushed us in the sense!

JD: I got called at the last minute to come in and do the drum tracks, and the songs were still in a pretty rough form when I got down there. Ryan Greene and I really had to refine some of the song structures with David and one of the other guys to pull the arrangements together. Most of the songs didn't really have any melodies or lyrics at that point. It's really hard in that situation to create drum charts and arrangements when you don't know what the vocal subject, the vocal melodies and the vocal lines are at this point [laughs]. You're playing blind a lot unfortunately. I have been in the studio several other times where the songs haven't been finished, and we were under the gun! You just have to guess your way through a lot of things and in this case it came out really good. I thought sonically it's a pretty tight sounding record and I'm really happy with it.

INSIDE OUT: Guys Over the last couple of months I have had the album on heavy rotation and it's a very fresh sounding metal album. I found myself comparing it to Megadeth, Alice Cooper in parts as well as newer bands such as Disturbed and Sevendust. There are many stand out tracks on the album such as 'Rank and File' and 'Love is Dead', what stands out the most when you play the album back?

JD: No, not really. 'Control' is a good one. 'Love is dead', it's funny that you mention that one, the main trigger on that song is a blues shuffle and there's not too much of that done anymore. Not a lot of metal bands are even familiar with the term shuffle cause it's almost like a ZZ Top, Aerosmith blues based form, you don't hear much of that in the "Metal Genre". I think that it's funny that you've picked that track. There's some interesting stuff on 'The Reckoning' but I don't really have a favorite track at this point. I have always done records where there are one or two tracks where I go ehh! Why did we put that on the record and believe me... that's happened on a lot of occasions. When I listen to this album there is nothing that I would have left off.

DE: Just as the same with 'A Drug For All Seasons', I think 'The Reckoning' is best when digested as an entire meal, the whole record from top to bottom. It's not a concept album, but it flows like one! Lyrically, musically, the way one song ends and the next one begins it's really put together and flows all together. It was almost like the album wasn't complete until we knew we had all the right songs. We didn't set out to write any particular songs, but we knew when it was done! I love all of the progressive musical playing in 'No Excuse' I love the old school metal riffing in 'Love Is Dead' and then a song like 'Final Hour' to me is such a pleasure to listen to! I have a lot of favourites on this one!

INSIDE OUT: Looking at it from a drummer's point of view Jimmy, one of the standout tracks is 'Wake Up'! I loved everything from start to finish, when you hit the studio, did you have complete power over your drum tracks or did the band want certain styles from you for certain songs?

JD: I had pretty much complete control unless it got too out of hand and became too busy! We didn't run into that too much, we've all done this for such a long time that we know what works and what doesn't at this point. There was no one putting any controls or parameters on what I did. I tried to complement the guitar riffs as best I could, whether it was playing more or playing less. The purpose of every song is the riff, all you want to do as a drummer is compliment the riff without getting in the way of the vocals, and that's where the trick is. In this case I didn't know where the vocals were or if there were any vocals at all [laughs]. We cut the drum tracks in three days without many problems and barriers.

INSIDE OUT: The Reckoning was released in the United Stated back in August, has there been a date set for Australia yet?

DE: As far as I know there has not, it may be one of these things where it's available on import at some point. More and more everything is available online at iTunes and people can even go to our website where we have a mechanism called play now, pay now where you can buy the record and download it immediately and a copy of the album is also shipped to you in the mail.

INSIDE OUT: For the fans, family and friends who have heard the latest album, how has the responses been?

DE: So far across the board the response has been great. It's everything we expected it to be. I love the first record, but probably from the fans perspective it may have been a bit of a curve ball because they were expecting me to be continuing on more with what i did from the past. The way I saw it was that F5 was a different band, with a different name, with different musicians in it and my goal was always to let this band create its own sound rather than dictating to this band that it needs to sound like my past work. As a result, I think it kept F5 honest and it allowed the band to be creative and grow as you can hear now from the difference between the first and the second records. F5 stands on its own, and we're probably going to have fans on our own. It isn't always going to be solely relying on my past work to carry F5.

INSIDE OUT: Dave, does that actually bother you! Take a site like my own or Blabbermouth for example and the headlines always start with Ex-Megadeth bassist rather that F5 bassist. Do you get annoyed that many of us in the press are always referring to you as the Ex-Megadeth guy rather than the bass player for one of your more current projects such as F5?

DE: No, I personally don't mind it at all. It's to be expected and I think that if they stop doing that I should be concerned [laughs].

INSIDE OUT: David, when we last spoke back in 2006 you told me Dave Small had come up with the name for the band, now that he is no longer in it, will we be seeing a name change because of legal reasons or anything like that?

DE: No, no everything is fine with Dave. He is a great drummer and a really sweet guy. Dave has a real good spirit to him; we wanted to take the band in a much more metal direction because we really felt that this was a whole side of the band that you never really got to hear on the first record. I think that for Dave, it may have been a little bit out of the reportage of what he likes to do and what he normally would do. Dave was the one who stepped aside and there are definitely no hard feelings at all.

INSIDE OUT: Guys, let's talk about life on the road for a moment. Earlier this year you played some shows in the U.S.A. but i can't seem to find any details on upcoming F5 shows. What touring plans do you currently have in the works?

DE: Some agents have contacted us about some dates. Things have changed a lot since our last tour. Here in America diesel fuel is now five dollars a gallon, where it used to be two dollars a gallon. F5 is a new band, as much as Jimmy & I are known from our past work, legacy doesn't necessarily mean that you want to rely on that when it comes to touring. We're not playing any songs from our former bands we're only playing F5 songs. Years ago you would get a band and you would go out on the road and you would play whenever and where ever you could because that's how you built it, but Jimmy and I are in a different situation now. To take a band out on the road for a six pack of beer and a couple of blow jobs... we don't do that anymore [laughs], the music business is entirely different now. In our mind we did some shows cause we wanted to warm the band up and get some things going and help get the band up on the radar screens. But as far as going out an extensively touring.... ideally we'd like to go out touring with somebody else rather than us just going out and playing some tiny clubs. Some of it is a comfort level and some of it is just being realistic about how we are going to start and build a new band rather than how we would have done it twenty years ago.

INSIDE OUT: Speaking of going out on tour with other bands... I believe you are back on speaking terms with Dave Mustaine?

DE: Yeah I am!

INSIDE OUT: Does this mean we could possibly see F5 added to an upcoming Gigantour bill?

DE: [Laughs] I don't know if I'd go that far [laughs]. Anything is possible, I try to keep all doors open but I don't know if our cycles will be moving in the same direction by the time we are ready to take the album on the road.

INSIDE OUT: Well mate, it would be great if you guys were added to the bill before Gigantour came back to Australia!

DE: [Laughs] I see where you're going with this [laughs]. I love Australia; I was only able to go there twice in all my many years in that band, just because touring just wasn't as prominent for bands to get down to Australia as it is now! If I had to leave America for some reason, Australia would be the country that I'd go to!

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy, you were last here in 2004 and you have been to Australia a few times now with various bands. What fond memories do you have of Australia?

JD: Food poisoning... [Laughs] I swear to god man, just like Dave, I love Australia. I was there twice with Suicidal Tendencies, one of those times I was playing with Suicidal's and Alice in Chains...

INSIDE OUT: I was actually at that show, but we'll speak more about that in a moment...

JD: I came back again with Alice cooper in 1997 - 98, and then I came back again with Alice cooper in 2001 when I was filling in because they had no drummer at the time. I was in Australia again in 2004 again for a drummer's weekend. I haven't been there in four years now. Obviously I am a native of the United States but after touring around Australia that's the only other country that i would want to live also! I love the people down there, I've never had a bad time there except for the food poisoning, but Americans and Australians just get along. All politics aside Australians are always very friendly and very welcoming and that's why we love coming down there. There are a lot of great drummers and great musicians in Australia! Every time I come down there I always look at real estate!

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy lets go back to late October 1993 when Suicidal Tendencies and Alice in Chains played Australia together. I was fortunate enough to witness both Sydney shows which took place one week apart due to the touring schedule, and two things that come to mind when I think of the second Sydney show are 1. You were filling in on drums for Sean and 2. Layne jumping into the crowd to belt some guy who was spitting at him! Do you remember that incident?

JD: [Laughs] I totally remember that and I'll tell ya what... I have the only existing video of that show! The sound man for Suicidal's had this video camera and I taped three of the shows. He set a tripod up at the soundboard and I totally remember that happening! I was sitting up on the drum riser and someone had spat on Layne, then Layne had jumped into the crowd. We only had one security guard and he couldn't get Layne out. I remember stepping off the drums and I couldn't even find Layne in the crowd at one point. We were standing on the edge of the stage looking for him and he wasn't a terribly big guy. I remember standing there with Mike [Inez] and he said "well, he's in there somewhere" [laughs]. Eventually he will come back out and we can finish the set [laughs]. I remember that like it was yesterday!

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs] I wasn't standing too far away from the guy who was spitting at Layne and I still don't know why the hell he was doing it in the first place! Those Alice in Chains / Suicidal's shows were life changing concert experiences for me.

JD: I'll never understand why people pay money to go and see you, spit at you to then get beat up! I'll also never understand why people come to see you and then throw their shoes onstage! I'll also never understand why you go to a show, you buy a beer then you throw it at the band [laughs]. A couple of years ago I was playing with David Lee Roth and during the last song, which was Jump, I got hit in the head with a full beer bottle. It knocked me for a second, but I remember thinking... what was the point of throwing a perfectly good beer on the stage and hoping it would hit someone? If you don't like the song, you don't like the song, but don't throw your friggin beer! It's one of those mysteries that you and I will never understand [laughs].

INSIDE OUT: You both have played with some amazing musicians throughout your careers, is there any one band you would love to go out on the road with?

DE: It's pretty wide open, there are a lot of other big tours up here and I think F5 is a band who could play with Judas Priest and Queensryche or we could hit the road with newer bands like Sevendust, Disturbed or Symphony X. The cool thing with this new record is it has its traditional metal roots because of my background and because the guys in F5 are a little bit younger, it by nature has a fresh feeling about it too.

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy, out on the road who has given you the best piece of advice and what was it?

JD: I'm not a very good card player and I got a lot of poker playing techniques from Alice Cooper. I had to learn very quickly, because if you didn't learn you would lose your pay.

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs]

JD: You had to know when to get out of the game too. That was our past time out on the road, gigs over, we're on the bus, and we're playing poker. It's fun for a couple of hours but then you start losing and it's not that much fun! I've got to learn to be a better card player [laughs].

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs] What has been the best show of your life thus far, is it even possible to pinpoint one occasion?

JD: Not really, there are so many great experiences. I would say that those Alice In Chains shows were memorable. I was always a big fan of the band and that's how I could fill in so easily, I knew all of their songs. There were a lot of gigs with Suicidal Tendencies, when we were opening for Metallica, we had a lot of great nights, great crowds. Playing in Europe to 150, 000 people a night was just insane. The first David Lee Roth show was another great show. We didn't rehearse, just got out there. I grew up listening to Van Halen, so I knew all that stuff really well and you know the Dave solo stuff, but when you get up there and David Lee Roth is standing in front of the drum riser, it's a bit surreal. Woodstock with Megadeth was a pretty intense show.

INSIDE OUT: That's right there were a bunch of fires and riots weren't there?

JD: Yeah! We were going out as the riot team was coming in past us, guys in full amour with machine guns. I remember thinking this is not going to end well!

INSIDE OUT: Dave, you recently finished up work on the new Alien Blakk album also! What can you tell us about that?

DE: It's funny, Josh who is the main writer for that has always called me to play on his records, to the point where I'd usually hold him off to make sure his material is done. He eventually ends up at my house with a Cd, a guitar and music in hand saying "here it is, I need you in the studio Friday" [laughs]. That's how the first one went and that's how the new one went! Once we got into the studio he had a really good drummer lined up and the writing had really approved a lot from the first to the second record. I really like doing second records cause bands grow and people grow and stretch out more artistically and musically, there is a comfort level when you have been working with someone before! I have played on two Soulfly records, two F5 records and now two Alien Blakk records. The Alien Blakk stuff overall I really walked out of feeling satisfied as a bass player. Unlike the F5 record which is more a big rock band sound, The Alien Blakk is much more of a musician's type of album. There are a lot of different styles on the album from melodic to thrash to funk and it allows me to play what I want and not worry about it fitting into some kind of a box. As a musician it's fun to be able to do that, it's not about radio play, not about commercialism, it just about musicians hanging and seeing how far we can go with this!

INSIDE OUT: Guys we have hit the part of the interview where our readers get to find out more about the real you! What have your parents thought about the music you have played?

JD: [Laughs] They never really had an opinion. They were always really supportive when I was a kid of playing drums. They gave me a drum kit when I was two; most parents won't give you a drum kit when you're ten 'cause they don't want to hear it. From that stand point they have always been supportive. My dad's no longer with us but my mum is and she has come to Suicidal Tendencies, Alice Cooper and Megadeth shows. You name it, she's been there, and she's always liked it!

DE My parents were always supportive of me playing, they never liked the music that I played [laughs]. What parents want their kids getting into heavy metal? Fortunately I had a good upbringing and I think my father got really excited, that I got passionate about something. I later learned after he died that he was really passionate about architecture, but he took over our family farm and ran the farm operation which he was really good at. He was a business man but I think ideally he had this artistic thing inside of him that he probably was never able to realize to the level that he wanted. I think once he saw me grab on to music he got excited. He saw that I was serious about it, I dedicated my whole life to music, my every waking hour to it and he really got behind it and supported me!

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy has there ever been a point in your career where you thought it was all over?

JD: I always tell this story when I do drum clinics, because this is a prime example of not knowing where your career is going.... back in 1992 I was sitting at home one day, and there was nothing going on, I hadn't had a gig in a couple months and I was thinking to myself maybe it's over? If that's it, that's it, no big deal! I was contemplating retirement at twenty seven [laughs]. Next thing the phone rings, it was a management company and they wanted to know if I wanted to go and play with The Cult. I thought... that sounds great, they said "can you be in L.A. in a couple of days"? I said "Sure, I'm going to be there then anyways, see you then". About an hour later the phone rings again, and it's Robert Trujillo, and he says "hey man do you want to come down and jam with Suicidal's"? I said "sure man sounds good, I'll be in L.A. on Monday, see you then"! Cameron, I'm not making this story up... about an hour later I get another call from another management company saying "we're so and so and we represent Olivia Newton John, she needs a drummer are you interested in coming down and jamming"? I said "sure why not".

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs]

JD: I had gone from not knowing what I would be doing tomorrow to within three hours getting three calls from three completely different people! I had told my mum about it and she was completely thrilled by the Olive Newton John offer.

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs]

JD: She was saying "oh that's a great one"... of course she was going to like that one! Ironically, I went down and jammed with The Cult, then with Suicidal's and about two days later Olivia had found out that she had breast cancer and cancelled everything. Her management was very nice, they called me and said thanks for your time, but everything's off for now as Olivia has some health issues, thanks for your consideration, they were very very nice. That show was obviously out of the mix very quick as she wasn't going to be doing anything for some time! Then I wound up getting an offer from Suicidal Tendencies and I really liked them, they had just releases a new record which I thought was great too. With a weird twist of fortune that's how that all worked out, and I always tell people you never know what's going to happen, be open to different things cause you just never know where it's going to lead you.

INSIDE OUT: What is the one metal song you wish you had written?

DE: Iron Maiden's 'Number of the Beast'! It's friggin' awesome!

INSIDE OUT: If you woke up tomorrow and decided you no longer wanted to work in the industry, what would you be doing?

DE: That's a tough one! I don't know maybe I would pursue becoming a professional swimmer [laughs].

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy, I believe you actually own your own drum shop, how long have you had that now?

JD: I've had it for a couple of years, I have a staff that takes care of it and I go in a couple of days a week when I'm in town. I try to spend as much time as possible there but there are always other things going on.

INSIDE OUT: Dave how old is your kids now mate?

DE: Roman is 12 years old and Athena is 9 years old.

INSIDE OUT: As they get ready to enter their teenage years Roman in particular here, I wanted to ask you... when you look at the lifestyle that comes with being in this industry and being a parent who has done it all and seen it all, how do you plan to tackle the hard topics such as sex and drugs and what's the best piece of advice you think you could give the kids when the time comes?

DE: I am hoping that because I went out and lived my life and did almost every possible thing there is to do in debauchery that ever happened; I am hoping my kids will do the complete opposite [laughs].

INSIDE OUT: [Laughs] I guess in your case the hardest thing is you can't sit there and say if you do this and that this will happen to you, because let's face it you are one of the fortunate ones who has been able to make a very good living, is looking well and healthy and survived it! If your kids put up that argument down the track where does that leave you?

DE: You're absolutely right. I'm at the front end of it right now, and I'm not into it yet but one thing I have realized about parenting is that kids teach you how to parent. You can read every book until you're blue in the face but kids basically tech you how to be their parent. In my case, one of the best things that I have on my side is life experience. I'm not saying that the bible says this or that parenting book says that, in my case my experience becomes my greatest asset!

INSIDE OUT: How hard is it to juggle family life when you are so busy with various projects, it must be hard diving your time between both?

DE: It is a lot, recently I was in Hawaii for the Rock N' Roll Fantasy Camp then I came home then a week later I played an F5 show, then I did The Alien Blakk. Put it this way, the more I play, even if it's a lot of different varieties of music, the more excited I get, I feel like I'm living life to its fullest. I think sometimes that's the balance with family, music can be very self consuming and self absorbed and I think family is a way to pull me out of sucking myself up into my own asshole [laughs]! Having kids has made me stay young and feel youthful, it's kept me in touch with what's going on out there. It also helps me realize that music is an art form that is fun and passionate and entertaining for other people not just you!

JD: Without going into any details I am involved with some other business ventures, and when you play your whole life you don't wake up one morning and just say that's it, you always play! I don't tour as much as I used to cause I have family commitments now, and it just doesn't work for me, so I tour when I can in certain situations. At this point of my life nine - ten months on the road straight... I don't think I could tour like that anymore; I have other things in my life that takes priority. But I will always play.

INSIDE OUT: For many years I have been a huge fan of the work you have both done & the various projects you have been involved with. What does the future hold now that 'The Reckoning' is completed?

DE: I find that in life the best things usually happen without me trying. You lay down the footwork, roll down your sleeves one day the phone rings for this and an email shows up for that and that's kind of how I am doing it right now with 'The Reckoning'. Right now we're talking to the media and I'm really enjoying talking about 'The Reckoning' and letting the next things unfold for me!

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy, what's the craziest rumour you have ever heard about yourself and or any of the bands you have been in?

JD: I've never really been with anyone that controversial.

INSIDE OUT: Oh Suicidal's copped it for a while there!

JD: The image that the band portrayed was so different from how the band actually was. I remember people being scared of us, but if they ever met the guys in the band they would see that we were all really nice guys, normal and down to earth. We weren't choir boys by any means, but you take a band called Suicidal Tendencies and a lot of people would be intimidated and don't get me wrong, the band could be intimidating in certain situations but we were all pretty normal guys for the most part. A lot of people developed an opinion without really knowing what was going on behind the scenes which is completely wrong.

INSIDE OUT: Most artists are lucky to survive in the industry for 2 - 3 years and yet, you have had an amazing journey up to this point. If you had to relive it all again, would you change anything?

JD: That's a great question 'cause one part of me wants to say yes... I wish I had done this or changed that or got out of this one sooner but, I think by letting things take the course, that's what creates the whole journey. If you went back and perhaps changed something then the whole thing would have a different end result and the end result isn't really finished yet! There are certain things I wish I had done differently but it all happened for a reason and they're all learning experiences either musically or in a business sense. I'd hate to say it but it is what it is, and you just have to deal with it the best way you can. There have been plenty of positive experiences and there have been some bumps in the road, but that's what separates the men from the boys.

INSIDE OUT: Jimmy I have one last drumming question for you... these days it seems that everything has been done. Drummers seem to be more interested in trying to outdo each other, by playing faster than the drummers before and so forth especially when you look at the more extreme sub-genres of metal. What advice can you give to drummers who are trying to come up with their own unique sound and styles in a time when so much has already been created?

JD: I think you need to be open to everything when you are developing your sound and your technique. I think even if you want to be a death metal or jazz drummer you need to listen to everything. If you want to be a speed metal drummer that's great, there's nothing wrong with that. If you have some different influences then that can add more to your sound. If you wanted to do some jazz or Latin drumming, you should be able to do it with some metal, some rock and some punk. Be musically aware of other things going on; don't just know the one style, that's what will be holding you back. For drummers to set themselves apart they really have to be given the opportunity within the framework of the band and you don't always get that. Sometimes some of the greatest drummers are in the background or go unnoticed because they just aren't part of the song writing process or the sound of the band. The whole speed thing has come to a halt and you're exactly right the extreme metal drumming has already reached another plateau, and I admire that but it doesn't really do anything for me. I don't really enjoy that style of music. I like to hear some melody and that's a musical style that's not really based on melody, it's more on the attitude, the aggression and the speed. I can appreciate the work of anyone who can play that and I enjoy plenty of the musicians that play that stuff, but it's not something I'll be listening to a lot in my free time!

INSIDE OUT: David, just before we wrap it up I do have one final question which I ask of everyone... who is the one band you never want to hear again and why?

DE: I've never hated one band that much [laughs] maybe The Bay City Rollers or something. My brother used to play them all the time. There are some songs in this life that you know you hate, but when they are played around you, you end up singing them [laughs]!

INSIDE OUT: [laughs] I hear ya man! Guys I can't thank you enough for speaking with me today, it's been awesome! I wish you guys all the best of luck with 'The Reckoning' and hope to see you in Australia soon! Do you have any last words for our readers?

DE: Thank you so much everybody for hanging with me on this journey I've been doing this a lot of years and I've been creating a lot of different music with a lot of different people, and none of it means much if there isn't anyone out there listening so thank you!

JD: I just want to say thanks for doing this, I hope everyone gets to check out the record and hopefully we will get down there soon to play for you all!